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Michael D Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


Thank you, Tony. I have missed you guys and it warms my heart to be here. emoticon

---
Nothing by force, but everything by charity.

Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, pray for us.
Dec/12/2007, 9:46 pm Link to this post Send Email to Michael D   Send PM to Michael D
 
nattyjk Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


quote:

As an adult, I know the difference and can make judgment on them. With that said, I would not allow my daughter to read HP or see LOTR, or Narnia, or much of anything that I judge improper and immoral. Another double standard I guess.


Well, Tony, I think you negated the double standard idea in the first part of this statement. You are an adult who is solid in the knowledge of his faith and what is good and evil. Children are still developing their knowledge and understanding of these things and are more easily impressed by ideas without understanding that they may not be good messages. So I don't think you can compare your viewing these things with a child seeing them and then think that you are creating a double standard. Parenting as a whole would have to be seen as one big double standard then, don't you think? emoticon

quote:

I guess my point is is that I believe we are lumping all subjects into one. When I read HP, I don't for once believe what I am reading. To me, it is simply an entertaining story told over the span of 7 books. However, I can see the danger it may present to children.


I don't even think that it is so much the idea that children will believe it is real (though I guess that depends on the age level), I think it is in the idea that things that are evil will be seen as good. I think it would be naive for us to think that some of these things are not purposely made to help create a morally relative society.

quote:

Young boys are drawn to stories of heroes, monsters, and magic. I have a hard time believing that is bad.


I don't think it is always bad, of course. I think it depends on the story and its message. I have let my children watch The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe and explained to my 8-year-old how the story parallels the story of Christ. I just think we have to be careful about it and look to the Church for guidance when we aren't sure whether something is good for our children or not. Like I said, I think there are plenty of wonderful books and movies out there for our children to enjoy that do not pose a risk to their well-being, so I fail to see how not allowing some of them is of great consequence. I haven't read or seen any of the HP stories and I am perfectly okay with that. I don't think I have been deprived of anything, nor do I think my son has that we have not brought them into our home. And if now and again we end up being a little "over" protective, so what? We are held accountable by God for the souls of these little ones, and we all know what Christ said about what will happen to those who scandalize them. I'd say that's no small matter. This is one of those times when I'd rather be safe than sorry.

quote:

I'd hate to think that young boys can no longer dream about being heroic. It is what makes a young boy want to grow up.


Again, I don't think not seeing a few movies or reading a few books here and there is going to dash the dreams of young boys. What about the stories of our many heroic saints who died for the Faith? What about that kind of heroism? There are many types of heroism in this world, and slaying dragons isn't really one of them. My sons have an example of heroism in their daily lives from their own father who is a police officer. I think the important thing is the theme....the idea that one can go above and beyond the call of duty to do good or help others.

~ Natalie



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Holy cow, it's a girl!!!
Dec/13/2007, 12:59 pm Link to this post Send Email to nattyjk   Send PM to nattyjk
 
Michael D Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


Natalie,

Of course the Saints are examples of heroic virtue and a young boy wanting to grow up to be like his police officer father is another example.

I cannot defend or condemn the HP books because I have not read them and the criticism I have read turn on some fairly subtle points. How truly evil in effect they may be I simply do not know.

I can easily condemn the Golden Compass though based upon obvious lies its author is telling.

---
Nothing by force, but everything by charity.

Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, pray for us.
Dec/13/2007, 1:32 pm Link to this post Send Email to Michael D   Send PM to Michael D
 
SHJIHM Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


quote:

I can easily condemn the Golden Compass though based upon obvious lies its author is telling.



Agreed. As well as condemning the Da Vinci code for it's lies of 'facts' shrouded in fiction.

Having read the HP books myself, I find no hidden agendas nor anything that looks to be anything else other than what they are. Fictional fantasy stories. Albeit JKR's publicity announcement that Dumbledore is gay. There is no hint what so ever of that nugget contained anywhere in the books. And I have read the series several times now.



---
"My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


Dec/13/2007, 1:57 pm Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 
nattyjk Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


quote:

I cannot defend or condemn the HP books because I have not read them and the criticism I have read turn on some fairly subtle points. How truly evil in effect they may be I simply do not know.


I only know what I've read about them as well, I just don't really care. emoticon If my son were begging me to read the books or watch the movies, then I suppose I would be more inclined to do so myself (we preview any movies we have questions about before letting our children watch them). It just really hasn't been such an issue for me that I feel the need to do anything about it. I just think that since questions have been raised, people need to be cautious.

quote:

Having read the HP books myself, I find no hidden agendas nor anything that looks to be anything else other than what they are. Fictional fantasy stories.


I guess it might be hard for us as adults to read something the same way a child would. I think my main point here is that we have to be aware that there are subtle messages out there that over time could create moral and/or spiritual conflict for our children and to make the best decisions we can for them until they can make them for themselves. And I don't think it is reasonable for someone to argue as Lauchlin did that it is stifling creativity or over-protecting our children when we choose to keep some of these books and movies from them on the basis that they will end up ill-prepared in the future. I don't think that argument holds water.

~ Natalie

Last edited by nattyjk, Dec/13/2007, 2:20 pm


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Dec/13/2007, 2:17 pm Link to this post Send Email to nattyjk   Send PM to nattyjk
 
SHJIHM Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


quote:

I guess it might be hard for us as adults to read something the same way a child would.



Agreed, which is why I stated I am full of double standards. I would not allow my daughter to read HP unsupervised, if I allow her at all.

quote:

I think my main point here is that we have to be aware that there are subtle messages out there that over time could create moral and/or spiritual conflict for our children and to make the best decisions we can for them until they can make them for themselves.



I'm not sure if I have implied that I disagree with you, because I do not emoticon

I have discussed with my wife that our Daughter will be very limited as to what she can watch on TV. And anything she wants to read will have to be read by either me or Deanna before we will allow her to read it.

And I do not consider myself over protective either.





---
"My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


Dec/13/2007, 2:58 pm Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 
nattyjk Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


quote:

Agreed, which is why I stated I am full of double standards.


I still don't think this is so, Tony, for the reasons I stated above. There are necessarily different standards for adults than for children.

quote:

I'm not sure if I have implied that I disagree with you, because I do not.


Oh, no, I got that. I was just afraid my point had gotten lost somewhere as the discussion diverged somewhat. emoticon In addition, I was just bringing up the point that though we as adults may be able to process something without it having a negative impact on us morally or spiritually, the same may not be true for children not yet mature enough to do so.

~ Natalie

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Holy cow, it's a girl!!!
Dec/13/2007, 5:23 pm Link to this post Send Email to nattyjk   Send PM to nattyjk
 
Michael D Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


So we all actually agree, right?

---
Nothing by force, but everything by charity.

Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, pray for us.
Dec/14/2007, 11:03 am Link to this post Send Email to Michael D   Send PM to Michael D
 
nattyjk Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


I think so, Michael. But we can still discuss things we agree on, can't we? emoticon I was waiting for Lauchlin to respond as well.

~ Natalie

---
Holy cow, it's a girl!!!
Dec/14/2007, 11:20 am Link to this post Send Email to nattyjk   Send PM to nattyjk
 
SHJIHM Profile
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Re: The Golden Compass


I'm often accused of having a double standard because I speak out against films like TGC but have no problem allowing my children to view TPOTC.

Well, I wonder how much of a double standard atheists posses when they have no issue with their children watching garbage like the Da Vinci code, while trying to sue in a court of law to have God removed from the pledge of allegiance.

How is it possible that atheists insist that they do not have a core of beliefs? How does one sue for a non-belief?

---
"My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


Dec/14/2007, 12:38 pm Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 


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