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"‘Tonight, in the city of David, a Savior is born, 'tis Christ the Lord.'"

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing."
-Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Placating terrorists, meeting with dictators, compassion for murderers... but no humanity for the unborn... incredible.
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EWTN, Global Catholic Network

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SHJIHM Profile
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Devout Catholic
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?


quote:

But then, in the same breath, some will tell you that Original Sin isnt Biblical. Meaning they believe in the immaculate conception of everyone!



I never thought of it in this way. But your 100 percent right.

---
"My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


Dec/7/2006, 11:06 am Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 
Michael D Profile
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?


Catholics see a need for the Immaculate Conception because to Catholics, sin and holiness have a material reality. Mary could not have been sinful and carried God in her womb because God would not have abided in sin. Considering that Gnostic strains of thought seem to wind through much of modern Protestantism, do you think that by believing sin to be purely spiritual they can accomodate the paradox?

---
Nothing by force, but everything by charity.

Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, pray for us.
Dec/7/2006, 11:50 am Link to this post Send Email to Michael D   Send PM to Michael D
 
AJAbalahin Profile
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?


tom,

quote:

But then, in the same breath, some will tell you that Original Sin isnt Biblical. Meaning they believe in the immaculate conception of everyone!



And often the ones who are saying this consider themselves "mainstream Christians" and not Pelagians, Muslims, or Mormons!

AJ
Dec/7/2006, 12:07 pm Link to this post Send Email to AJAbalahin   Send PM to AJAbalahin
 
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Re: I've just seen it...


Michael,

I can only say that EWTN is my default channel -- that's what I put on if there is nothing else worth watching, which is 80% of the time.

I sponge up all the stuff I hear and read and wring myself out over at that IMDb board.

I do have a lot of time on my hands sometimes or just a desire to avoid work (especially grading students' papers). I don't worry that 90% of my audience over there is likely to be trolls. You never know who might be reading -- some Catholic who might be wavering in his faith under the assault of all the world's whispers.

I think all of us who post on those boards do just want to give such a person what support we can.

AJ
Dec/7/2006, 12:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to AJAbalahin   Send PM to AJAbalahin
 
AJAbalahin Profile
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?


Tony,

quote:

It offends me greatly when folks try to preach that Mary, the Mother of God was stained with sin. This in itself shows a complete lack of respect for our Lord.



It shows moreover that they do not understand what it means to say that God is holy, they do not comprehend what holiness is.

If they do not understand such things how could they ever recognize that the ancient title of Mary as "All Holy" (Panagia) is evidence that the idea of the Immaculate Conception goes back to the beginnings of the Church?

AJ
Dec/7/2006, 12:33 pm Link to this post Send Email to AJAbalahin   Send PM to AJAbalahin
 
Michael D Profile
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Re: I've just seen it...


You have to figure a large percentage of the people who read the threads never post. Of the ones who do, many of them are adolescents or teenagers. Presenting the Catholic view for that audience is justifiable, even though many seem trollish.

---
Nothing by force, but everything by charity.

Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, pray for us.
Dec/7/2006, 12:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to Michael D   Send PM to Michael D
 
tom7mot Profile
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?


quote:

Mary could not have been sinful and carried God in her womb because God would not have abided in sin.



God can abide in sin. He indwells in sinners all the time.

But, once again, the Incarnation changes everything. Jesus took His flesh from Mary. He had to, or He wouldnt have any connection to us as humans. This is where your wonderfully worded notion of 'sin and holiness having a material reality' comes in...

Dec/7/2006, 1:39 pm Link to this post Send Email to tom7mot   Send PM to tom7mot
 
SHJIHM Profile
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The Nativity Story


Tom, Michael, Natalie, please check your PM's emoticon

Last edited by SHJIHM, Dec/7/2006, 2:59 pm


---
"My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


Dec/7/2006, 2:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 
Michael D Profile
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?


quote:

God can abide in sin. He indwells in sinners all the time.



Hmmm. Mortal sin is spiritual death and robs one of the grace of the Holy Spirit. He does indwell the venial sinner. But that is not what I meant.

Do you think Jesus could have been born of a sinful woman and God simply chose otherwise or do you think the Immaculate Conception was necessary to provide a sinless vessel for our Lord?

---
Nothing by force, but everything by charity.

Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, pray for us.
Dec/7/2006, 3:19 pm Link to this post Send Email to Michael D   Send PM to Michael D
 
tom7mot Profile
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Re: Mary. Is She More Powerful Than Jesus In The Catholic Church?



quote:

Do you think Jesus could have been born of a sinful woman and God simply chose otherwise...



No.


quote:

or do you think the Immaculate Conception was necessary to provide a sinless vessel for our Lord?




Yes.
Dec/7/2006, 5:59 pm Link to this post Send Email to tom7mot   Send PM to tom7mot
 


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