"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Placating terrorists, meeting with dictators, compassion for murderers... but no humanity for the unborn... incredible.
OOT
United Atheist Front? A group called the Free Thought Association of Canada is advocating Atheism to the world. They have gone so far, in various regions of Canada, as to put advertising on buses.
Now, to clarify, I do not see anything wrong with this, in theory, but the approach being taken is kind of questionable on both sides of the house. The bus lines in question are refusing, in some areas, to run the ads because they are 'controversial', while still running messages of various other religious organizations for various purposes.
The slogans are as follows:
"You can be good, without God!"
"There is no God, so relax and enjoy your life!"
I have no problem with the first one. It is a message of acceptance, stating that it is okay if a person does not hold the beliefs of others. We would say similar to other Christians, that they should not be persecuted by Jews, Muslims, Buddhists (lol), or Atheists, for their beliefs.
The second, however, is deliberately inflammatory, condescending, and overly judgmental.
Any thoughts? A quick search on the Free Thought Association will likely show you what I am talking about.
It is frankly obnoxious and condescending. It is not surprising though if you spend much time on the internet as the atheists are very vocal and aggressive. They come across as angry teenagers, which they probably mostly are. I think this campaign probably was started by Richard Dawson though.
Re: United Atheist Front? It is hard to say, Michael.
In truth, I would say that it is no different than someone putting up advertisements for God, 'Pro-Life', Anti-Gay Marriage, etc.
Perhaps the flaw is in that you think your outlook is right, and so do they, so you can't just agree to disagree, because you both see each others' movements as dangerous. I would say that this is much less aggressive and condescending then people holding signs saying 'God Hates Fags' and calling people baby killers. We all know that we could find just as bad and worse today, and throughout Christian history.
In truth, I saw a program the other night where an atheist was suing 'wayofthemaster.org' with Kirk Cameron's crew, for selling a bumper sticker that says "National Atheists Day: April 1st". When he broached it with other atheists, they almost ate him alive. My point being, there are bad seeds among every group.
Though I definitely must agree that that bumper sticker is kind of ironic... it does say in the Bible that if you call someone a fool, then you will not walk with Christ in Heaven...
Re: United Atheist Front? I have no issues with these kinds of ads. If a Christian organization can advertise for God, I don't see why atheists can not express their non-belief. However, I would not hesitate to defend my faith to a person who arbitrarily shares their non belief in God while riding in the seat next to me
--- "My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Re: United Atheist Front? Perhaps the flaw is in that you think your outlook is right, and so do they, so you can't just agree to disagree
I have to wonder what you think of me, Lauchlin. I am entirely able to emphasize with the atheistic outlook. I experience the same temptations to pride that would make me believe that God does not exist and I would never be condescending to an honest atheist. My problem with the bus ad in particular is that it implies that Christians are miserable because of their beliefs. There are some miserable Christians but not due to the moral system that Christianity requires you to live by, which is what the sponsors of the ad are implying.
Re: United Atheist Front? Definitely, Tony - nothing wrong with open discussion.
Michael, I understand your point. I actually wrote a letter to the editor of a paper that criticized the ads, in one sentence applauding the denouncement of the implications of the statement, and chastising the writer in the next sentence for making a bad name for Christians through the same kind of misrepresentation.
However, this statement:
quote:
I experience the same temptations to pride that would make me believe that God does not exist and I would never be condescending to an honest atheist.
by its very nature would be seen as condescending by most any atheist. By stating that a person is succumbing to temptation and pride in not believing that there is a God. I can tell you, even as conflicted as I am, that this has little to do with the atheist standpoint (with 'honest' atheists, anyhow). This is similarly as condescending as an atheist saying that a Christian's belief in God is denial of reality, and mental laziness, as well as extreme 'follower' mentality.
Just a thought, but can we actually sit back and state that, since we cannot just turn around and say 'here is God', that the atheist, agnostic, and deist outlooks are just as valid?
I am not trying to make any judgment on you, Michael, I am just trying to highlight that both sides of the argument make the same mistakes in speaking about each other - they use terms that make the others seem infantile, condescending, and petulant.
I suppose, however, in a true or false situation like this, there really can be no middle ground. If someone looked at me and denied the existence of water, or advocated the existence of the one eyed, one horned, flying purple people eater, I would treat them both as loons.
Re: United Atheist Front? Lauchlin,
You seemingly implied that a religious mind is so crippled by belief as to be unable to do science well. I find that to be condescending. Behind condescension is pride. It is possible to look at the physical world and convince yourself that no God is necessary to explain it as long as you don't look too closely at the ex nihilo part but it is not possible to do that without consciously rejecting the idea of a creator God. Our culture has not entirely shed its spiritual underpinnings so our materialism is a revolt, not a pristine development.
I think it is undeniable that it takes a certain amount of pride to convince oneself that God does not exist. That temptation to pride mostly presents itself to the highly intelligent. That is simply its nature. If God has worked in my life it has mostly been to make me humble. I would probably be insufferable otherwise.
Re: United Atheist Front? Pride is a disease , and I am fighting to control it . In recent times the pride associated to my forecasts has turned into sadness because people are ignoring them until it's too late .
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought
