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Placating terrorists, meeting with dictators, compassion for murderers... but no humanity for the unborn... incredible.
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Devout Catholic

Registered: 07-2005
Posts: 1370
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A True Letter of Our Savior Jesus Christ


Copy of a letter of the Oration found in the Holy Sepulchre of Our Lord Jesus Christ in Jerusalem, preserved in a silver box by His Holiness and by the Emperors and Empresses of the Christian Faith.

St. Elizabeth, Queen of Hungary, with St. Matilda and St. Bridget, wishing to know something of the Passion of Jesus Christ, offered fervent and special prayers, upon which there appeared to them Our Lord Jesus Christ Who spoke to them in the following manner:

I descended from Heaven to the Earth in order to convert you. In olden times people were religious and their harvests were abundant; at present, on the contrary, they are scanty.

If you want to reap an abundant harvest you must not work on Sunday, for on Sunday you must go to Church, and pray to God to forgive your sins. He gave you six days in which to work and one for rest and devotion and to tender your help to the poor and assist the Church.

Those people who brawl against My religion and cast slurs on this Sacred Letter, shall be forsaken by Me.

On the contrary, those people who shall carry a copy of this letter with them shall be free of death by drowning and from sudden death. They shall be free from all contagious diseases and lightning; they shall not die without Confession, and shall be free from their enemies and from the hand of wrongful authority, and from all their slanderers and false witnesses.

Women in peril at child-birth will, by keeping this Oration about them. immediately overcome the difficulty. In the houses where this Oration is kept,no evil thing will ever happen: and forty days before the death of a person who has this Oration about him or her, the Blessed Virgin will appear to him or her. So said St. Gregorius.

TO ALL THOSE FAITHFUL WHO SHALL RECITE FOR 3 YEARS, EACH DAY, 2 PATERS, GLORIAS and AVES, IN HONOR OF THE DROPS OF BLOOD I LOST, I WILL CONCEDE THE FOLLOWING 5 GRACES:
1. The plenary indulgence and remittance of your sins.
2. You will be free from the pains of Purgatory.
3. If you should die before completing the said 3 years, for you it will be the same as if you had completed them.
4. It will be upon your death the same as if you had shed all your blood for the Holy Faith.
5. I will descend from Heaven to take your soul and that of your relatives, until the fourth generation.

Be it known that the number of armed soldiers were 150; those who trailed me while I was bound were 23. The executioners of justice were 83; the blows received on my head were 150; those on my stomach, 108; kicks on my shoulders, 80. I was led, bound with cords by the hair, 24 times; spits in the face were 180; I was beaten on the body 6666 times; beaten on the head 110 times; I was roughly pushed, and at 12 o' clock I was lifted up by the hair; pricked with thorns and pulled by the beard 23 times; received 20 wounds on the head; thorns of marine junks, 72; pricks of thorns in the head, 110; mortal thorns in the forehead, 3. I was afterwards flogged and dressed as a mocked king; wounds in the body, 1000. The soldiers who led Me to the Calvary were 608; those who watched Me were 3, and those who mocked Me were 1008; the drops of blood which I lost were 28,430.

BENEDETTA DA SS., POPE LEO XIII, IN ROMA 5 APRILE 1890


LETTER

Last edited by SHJIHM, Mar/9/2006, 11:18 am


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Dec/30/2005, 11:38 am Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 
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Priest

Registered: 12-2005
Posts: 603
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Re: A True Letter of Our Savior Jesus Christ


Tony - This is totally new to my eyes. I have never seen this before. Apparently this letter does not receive much promotion or attention within or without the Church or how did I miss it? - Nord
Jan/6/2006, 6:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nordiclover   Send PM to Nordiclover
 
channyrose Profile
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: A True Letter of Our Savior Jesus Christ


Dude do you seriously believe that letter.

Jesus would definately not have written that. For a start the idea of purgatory wasn't introduced until the 15th or 16th century, so that idea wasn't around around the time that Christ was alive.

2. Why would anyone care if they saw Mary. Mary is only a person, and that is clearly shown in scripture, as she is in no way glorified. The whole idea of the bible is to Glorify Christ - not any created being i.e. Mary. Mary was only a vessel, and yes I am grateful that God chose her to carry Jesus so that my sins could be forgiven, but there is no need to idolise her.

As for carrying that letter to be free from diseases etc... you seriously have to be joking. It's only by the power of Christ's blood - what Christ did on that cross and the fact that he was resurrected from the dead that my sins can be forgiven - the fact that my sins are forgiven is what gives me freedom from sickness and diseases If you read scripture you will find this to be true.

trust me I know God has healed me of cancer before and I didnt even need to get any treatment. I even knew that I would get diagnosed with cancer and get healed before I was diagnosed, because God gave me the revelation that He was going to shock the doctors, and glorify His own name through me, I was only a vessel, but God could have chosen anyone.


3. indulgences - dude that is seriously abusing the grace of God. there is no way you can pay for your own sins by doing good works either. THe only way any sin can be paid for is by the work of the cross at Calvary with Christ on the cross - not us.

4. We are not saved by works only by faith in Christ Jesus and the fact that He rose from the dead - therefore we do not have to do anything for 3 years to be saved or blah blah because otherwise we are saying to be saved it equal what Christ did on the cross plus works and our works are seriously meaningless when it comes to salvation.

I can provide scripture for all of this but you should really read your bible so I won't.
Jul/27/2006, 8:35 am Link to this post Send Email to channyrose   Send PM to channyrose
 
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Devout Catholic

Registered: 07-2005
Posts: 1370
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Re: A True Letter of Our Savior Jesus Christ


quote:

channyrose wrote:

Dude do you seriously believe that letter.



As a Catholic, I am not required to believe in the authenticity of the letter.

quote:

Jesus would definately not have written that. For a start the idea of purgatory wasn't introduced until the 15th or 16th century, so that idea wasn't around around the time that Christ was alive.



Why could Christ not have written it. If it simply because of your non belief in Purgatory, than you have much yet to discover. Purgatory was already an excepted belief long before any Catholic councel. There is MUCH Scripture to support the Catholic belief in Purgatory...

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

quote:

Why would anyone care if they saw Mary.



Because she is the Mother of our Lord.

quote:

Mary is only a person, and that is clearly shown in scripture, as she is in no way glorified.



This belief differes GREATLY from Scripture. It was the Angel Gabriel who greats Mary....

Hail Mary FULL OF GRACE.

What does it mean to you to be full of Grace? God's Grace?

Also, Catholoics do NOT glorify Mary. That is a misconception.

quote:

The whole idea of the bible is to Glorify Christ - not any created being i.e. Mary.



Agreed. Catholics do not glorify nor worship Mary.
 
quote:

Mary was only a vessel, and yes I am grateful that God chose her to carry Jesus so that my sins could be forgiven, but there is no need to idolise her.



Jesus took His flesh from His Mother. She claimed that from now on all generations would call her blessed! Quite frankly, only the Catholic faith honors her in this way.

quote:

As for carrying that letter to be free from diseases etc... you seriously have to be joking.



It is thru our faith in Christ in which we are healed. Not thru the letter. You have misunderstood much.

quote:

We are not saved by works only by faith in Christ Jesus and the fact that He rose from the dead



this belief is unbiblical. Scripture no where says that we are saved by faith alone. However, Scripture does tell us that we are saved thru our faith and works. Works of themselves will save no one, nor do Catholics teach this. It is our FAITH that will produce the works of the spirit which are neccessary for salvation as Scripture tells us.

quote:

therefore we do not have to do anything for 3 years to be saved or blah blah



You totally fail to see what is being accomplished here. It is the honoring of the sacred blood of Jesus, the honoring of our Lord that is important, which is accomplished thru our devotion to His drops of blood he lost for us on his way to Calvary.

quote:

I can provide scripture for all of this but you should really read your bible so I won't.



The Pillar and Foundation of the truth has already interpreted Scripture thousands of years before you or I were born.

You are most welcome here CanneyRose, but understand that any attack upon the Catholic faith will not be tolerated. I look forward to sharing our faiths in future discussions.



Last edited by SHJIHM, Jul/27/2006, 2:17 pm


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Jul/27/2006, 2:15 pm Link to this post Send Email to SHJIHM   Send PM to SHJIHM
 
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Peacemaker

Registered: 02-2007
Posts: 868
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Re: A True Letter of Our Savior Jesus Christ


quote:

Dude do you seriously believe that letter.

Jesus would definately not have written that.



It isn't claimed that Jesus wrote the letter during his time on earth. It states that:

quote:

St. Elizabeth, Queen of Hungary, with St. Matilda and St. Bridget, wishing to know something of the Passion of Jesus Christ, offered fervent and special prayers, upon which there appeared to them Our Lord Jesus Christ Who spoke to them in the following manner



St. Elizabeth was a 13th Century Queen of Hungary.
Feb/8/2007, 2:03 am Link to this post Send Email to TomThumb   Send PM to TomThumb MSN Yahoo
 
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Registered: 04-2007
Posts: 21
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Re: A True Letter of Our Savior Jesus Christ


quote:

channyrose wrote:


Jesus would definately not have written that. For a start the idea of purgatory wasn't introduced until the 15th or 16th century, so that idea wasn't around around the time that Christ was alive.





Hey Guys,

I remember reading that there is graffiti on the tombs in the Catacombs testifying to the belief in purgatory. Things like, St Paul and Peter pray for them. Does anybody have anything on this?



quote:

channyrose wrote:

2. Why would anyone care if they saw Mary. Mary is only a person, and that is clearly shown in scripture, as she is in no way glorified. The whole idea of the bible is to Glorify Christ - not any created being i.e. Mary. Mary was only a vessel, and yes I am grateful that God chose her to carry Jesus so that my sins could be forgiven, but there is no need to idolise her.





The argument that Mary and Saints detract from Christ’s glory use to get me too, but it just the opposite. They reflect Jesus’ glory not take away from it. Like an artist whose work is at a gallery to be admired, people say “wow what wonderful work and craftsmanship.” It precisely the work of Christ in these people that glorifies Him, that is how His glory is manifested and seen by us in the material world. That is what the Catholic Church honors.



Christ honored Mary as the fourth commandment says; he was a good son fulfilling the law. I believe if I am not mistaken and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the Hebrew word for honor imply to be glorified? I heard this from Scott Hahn (one of my favorites)

Plus Mary was not exempt from Christ’s saving work on Calvary; she is its first fruits. Time means nothing to God; He applied those graces to her so she could be Immaculately Conceived. So like the Ark of the Covenant was pure vessel for the Law and the manna; Mary became the New Ark for the living law and the bread of life. There is no way Christ would be contained in an impure vessel.

Plus there was a standing tradition in the Israelite culture to have a Queen Mother called the Gebirah. Starting with King Solomon who appointed his mother has High Queen and the people carried their petitions to her to relay to the King. This tradition is only glimpsed at in Scripture, another good reason not to ignore Tradition including O.T. Jewish Tradition.
More can be read about it here. Scott Hahn on Mary

There are also some beautiful analogies between Mary and the Old Ark of the Covenant. Like how the acacia wood is resistant to disease as Mary is resistant to sin. Gold symbolizing purity as well and how the Ark was never for common use also symbolizing Mary’s virginity.

Mary is the New Eve, the New Ark of the Covenant, we don’t worship her, we give her honor as any person of true distinction, character and grace deserve and by honoring them we honor the work of Christ.


May His peace be upon you all.

In Christ
Maritain

p.s. I am not sure if the hyperlink will work, still not sure how to do it on a forum, so here's the original link.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/bvm/hahn.asp



edited to fix quotes emoticon
 


 




 
  

 
  






Scott Hahn on Mary


Last edited by SHJIHM, Apr/5/2007, 10:10 am


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Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
KJV Jhn 20:23
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