"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Placating terrorists, meeting with dictators, compassion for murderers... but no humanity for the unborn... incredible.
OOT
fellow Protestants - we should pray for the dead Many years ago I came to the conclusion that prayers for our dead relatives and friends was a loving exercise at the very least and at it's maximum, might even be of benefit to them. While I am uncertain as to all the ins and outs of the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory and do not personally favor the doctrine of indulgences, they do make a strong case regarding the import of praying for the dead. The Apostle's Creed refers to the "Communion of Saints" and praying for the dead is a practice that goes back to the very early days of the Christian Church.
The Eastern Orthodox Church also prays for the dead, though they do not define the intermediate state with any specificity like the Catholics do and they are uncertain exactly how their prayers benefit the dead, but they do believe that they can help. What better time to pray for our dead loved ones than at this Christmas season? There is nothing in Scripture that condemns this ancient practice.
Oh, Yes, some will say, "It can't do any good". Well, to that statement I counter with, "It can't do any harm". Why not give it a try? If nothing else, it will give us a sense of peace, to know that we are lifting our departed loved ones up before the Lord. - Nordiclover
Re: fellow Protestants - we should pray for the dead Nord, you are one of my favorite Christian posters. You understand so much that others have such a hard time with. You are truly wise my friend.
I just want to touch a bit on indulgences. There is much misconception regarding them. Indulgences remit only temporal penalties, they cannot remit the eternal penalty of hell. Once a person is in hell, no amount of indulgences will ever change that fact. The only way to avoid hell is by appealing to God's eternal mercy while still alive. After death, one's eternal fate is set. Also, the Church has always taught that indulgences do not apply to sins not yet committed.
Now, it is true that some Church's did abuse indulgences in the past. The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses,in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions" (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church's seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.
--- "My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Re: fellow Protestants - we should pray for the dead Tony - I appreciate your kind words very much.
I think back to the Scriptural command, "pray ye, one for another". It seems logical to me that such a command should not stop at death's door. Yes, I know that many will claim that someone is either in Heaven or Hell and that our prayers will do no good after one is dead. However, we cannot and do not know such for with certainty. There is the possibility of an intermediate state and on the chance that such does exist, I say we should lift our dead loved ones up before the Lord and ask him to be merciful to them.
Re: fellow Protestants - we should pray for the dead I wanted to make this a sticky topic. Nord showed great insight with this post. I hope he returns soon.
--- "My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Re: fellow Protestants - we should pray for the dead Nord is in very good company when he believes in prayers for the dead
Saint Peter prayed for the dead.
Acts (9:36-40)
36 And in Joppe there was a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas. This woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
37 And it came to pass in those days that she was sick, and died. Whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppe, the disciples hearing that Peter was there, sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not be slack to come unto them.
39 And Peter rising up, went with them. And when he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber. And all the widows stood about him weeping, and shewing him the coats and garments which Dorcas made them.
40 And they all being put forth, Peter kneeling down prayed, and turning to the body, he said: Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes; and seeing Peter, she sat up.
Our Lord and Saviour prayed for the dead.
St. John (11:41-45)
41 They took therefore the stone away. And Jesus lifting up his eyes said: Father, I give thee thanks that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always; but because of the people who stand about have I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 When he had said these things, he cried with a loud voice: Lazarus, come forth.
44 And presently he that had been dead came forth, bound feet and hands with winding bands; and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus said to them: Loose him, and let him go.
45 Many therefore of the Jews, who were come to Mary and Martha, and had seen the things that Jesus did, believed in him.
Saint Peter PRAYED FOR Tabitha and Jesus PRAYED FOR Lazarus. For such miracles to occur, the person prayed for must be – by definition – dead. Therefore both Jesus and Peter prayed for the dead. It is therefore God’s will and entirely scriptural practice to pray for the dead. If it were not God’s will for men to pray for such things, He would not have honored the prayers, and the dead person would not have been raised.
1 John (5:14-15)
14 And this is the confidence which we have towards him: That, whatsoever we shall ask according to his will, he heareth us.
15 And we know that he heareth us whatsoever we ask: we know that we have the petitions which we request of him.
To rule this practice out is IMPOSSIBLE if we are to be true to the Bible and the teachings of our Lord and the Apostles.
